THE ANSON COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS convened for a recessed
meeting on Thursday, May 5, 2005 at 4:30 P.M. in the Hardison-Bradley Room
located in the Hampton B. Allen Library.

      Commissioners present: Jarvis Woodburn, Chair
                             Steve Lear
                             Bobby Sikes
                             Dr. Jim Sims

      Staff members present: James Bennett, Interim County Manager
                             Bonnie M. Huntley, CMC, Clerk to the Board
                             Larry Crandell, Director of Social Services
                             Rita James, Data Processing
                             Vance Gulledge, Utilities Director



      Chairman Woodburn called the recessed meeting to Order.  Chairman
Woodburn stated the purpose of today's meeting was to meet with
Representative Pryor Gibson and to discuss a personnel issue.  Chairman
Woodburn thanked Representative Gibson for meeting with the Board and
thanked department heads that were in attendance.

      Representative Gibson stated that he was proud to be here and wished
he had good news on the State budget.  Representative Gibson stated that
neither the Governor's budget nor the Senate budget had a lot of good news
for low wealth rural counties.  Representative Gibson noted that Anson
County was in a league with about twenty-five other rural counties that
were wiped out by what is a federal group of unfunded mandates, a State
slowness in recovery from the previous three to four years of economic
depression and the needs we have in a small low growth - high need county.
Representative Gibson noted that our biggest dilemma will be figuring out
how to make sure Washington and the Federal folks understand when they cut
eight to nine hundred million dollars of Medicaid from us at the State
level, it makes it more difficult for the State to try to figure out how to
get Medicaid off the back of the county.   Representative Gibson stated
that he and Senator Purcell were sponsoring a bill to do a phase out of the
Medicaid responsibility on the counties.  Representative Gibson stated
another problem is figuring out how to get the Federal folks to re-issue
what they promised they would do three to five years ago.   Representative
Gibson stated that the whole budget situation was a mess.  Representative
Gibson stated that if there is any good news, thinking people in Raleigh
know we have a problem and are trying to figure out a way to give us the
tools we need to do what we have to do so that we don't burden people with
ad valorem taxes.  Chairman Woodburn stated that Mr. Crandell, Director of
Social Services, was present to re-innerate the impact of Medicaid on Anson
County.  Chairman Woodburn noted that we were hoping to get relief in this
area but it sounds like now they have no idea when this will happen.
Chairman Woodburn referred to a report from the NCACC saying we will take
another blow in the cut in ADM funding for schools.  Representative Gibson
asked Board members to remember this is the Senate's budget, as the
Governor's budget did not cut ADM funding.  Representative Gibson stated
that he was hoping they would be a little braver on tobacco tax as the
Senate's recommendation is thirty-five cents with the Governor recommending
forty-five cents.  Representative Gibson stated that is about seventy
million dollars in recurring monies that we could certainly use.
Representative Gibson stated he was also disappointed that they saw to cut
income tax on the wealthiest folks in the State, feeling we cannot afford
this at this time.  Representative Gibson expected the house to propose in
their budget that those funds should be considered.  Representative Gibson
also suspects the house will say we need to consider not cutting corporate
income tax, which is about a hundred and ten million dollars in recurring
money.  Representative Gibson expects the house to find another one hundred
fifty to two hundred fifty million dollars in additional recurring
revenues.  Representative Gibson stated that his committee has to find one
hundred million dollars recurring and one hundred fifty million dollars non-
recurring funds.  Representative Gibson stated that the budget that was
voted on this morning is no where close to being done but he is not
optimistic in getting Medicaid relief.  Representative Gibson stated that
the Senate budget actually cut back on Medicaid reimbursements to
individuals and they also cut back on prescriptions to the tune of about
seventy million dollars.  Representative Gibson feels that low wealth
people needing a lot of drugs are the ones that will get hurt in this
budget.  Representative Gibson stated that the Senate also cut eighty
million dollars to the disabled, blind and elderly programs.
Representative Gibson stated that he would not be surprised if it takes
them to the end of August to complete the budget.  Representative Gibson
stated that he suspects that the highest priority for those in rural
counties will be to come up with a schedule for the dissolution of the
county portion of Medicaid.  Commissioner Lear asked what would be the
earliest that we could possibly feel the effect of this, if it happens.
Representative Gibson stated he would not know that until he knows the
exact dollar amount of what the Feds are not going to give us and that
might be sometime in August or September.  Representative Gibson did state
that he could about guarantee we would not see any Medicaid relief on the
county level in this budget cycle.  Representative Gibson stated that DSS
was not only getting unfunded mandates but they were also getting mandates
that they could not possibly do with current personnel.  Representative
Gibson stated that ten years ago, it was 65% education and 25% healthcare
and now it is 55% education and 38% healthcare.  Commissioner Sims asked if
we were not the only State in the United States that passes along Medicaid
financial burdens to the county.   Representative Gibson stated that New
York and North Carolina were the only States and now New York has passed a
law to dissolve their Medicaid pass-through.  Representative Gibson stated
that the New York law was not official yet but they have good reason to
believe it will be and North Carolina will then be the last State.
Commissioner Sims feels that many property owners do not realize that a
significant amount of their property tax is tied to Medicaid.  Commissioner
Sims noted the other large group is the Medicaid recipients and from what
he is hearing, they are receiving less benefits and service.  Commissioner
Sims feels that once those two groups understand what is happening to them,
then a great many of the State Legislators will not be going back in
office.   Commissioner Sims congratulated Representative Gibson on his
positions and support.  Representative Gibson stated that Senator Purcell
was the Chair of the HHS committee and the man on the Senate side.
Representative Gibson feels that Anson County is in trouble based on
demographics.  Commissioner Sims voiced that the whole idea of how to fund
Medicare puts the greatest burden on those least able to pay.
Representative Gibson stated that the formula at the Federal level as it
relates to disbursement is unfair to county units of government that have a
disproportion population.  Representative Gibson stated that they have made
attempts to change Medicaid forms.  Representative Gibson stated that North
Carolina is most generous as we fund 100% of Medicaid and that makes us the
only State in the East, with the exception of Massachusetts, that funds
100% of Medicaid reimbursement.   Commissioner Sims asked if forty-nine
other States are able to take care of their Medicaid, why can't North
Carolina do it.  Representative Gibson stated that the reason they are able
to do this is that they just cut back on their reimbursement.
Representative Gibson stated that the criteria would be the same and the
only thing to do to save on Medicaid would be to cut benefits.
Commissioner Sims believes there would be two choices with one being to cut
from the Medicaid beneficiaries and the other would be to put additional
revenue from other sources into that fund.  Representative Gibson stated he
was absolutely right, and asked where that resource would be.
Commissioner Sims voiced that as long as Medicaid cost continue to escalate
rapidly, counties like Anson County, no matter how much we cut or save we
end up each year with a bigger budget.  Representative Gibson feels we are
victims of the very thing that makes us love Anson County so much.
Representative Gibson stated that this was the worse budget year we've had
in anybody's recent memory.

      Representative Gibson did state that all the agricultural use stuff
has gone away and there will be no sales tax or equipment machinery tax on
anything related to agriculture.  Representative Gibson felt this was good
for Anson County because we derive a lot of our ad valorem and jobs from
agriculture business related projects.

      Representative Gibson feels that the reimbursements and funding we
are currently receiving are pretty safe.  Representative Gibson stated that
franchise tax, reimbursements, Powel bill and transportation appear to be
safe.   Commissioner Lear feels that because cigarettes contribute to
rising health problems, it would be better to argue that that would be a
better way to pay for Medicaid than property tax.  Commissioner Lear favors
an effort to seek relief through an increase in the cigarette tax.
Representative Gibson noted that voice was very loud as it relates to the
tobacco and alcohol tax.  Commissioner Lear asked if the tobacco and
alcohol lobby was so strong that they were outweighing this consideration
or if those who need Medicaid relief the least are not pushing it as hard.
Representative Gibson said the "alcohol lobby" and the "tobacco lobby" is
really not a lobby as much as it is constituent members.  Representative
Gibson stated that tobacco farmers elect you and there is a natural
resistance to doing anything to tobacco as a product.  Representative
Gibson noted that when you look at the urban areas that don't want it and
you put in the Republicans that will not vote for any tax, then you are
only looking at thirty to forty people that would be willing to vote for a
tobacco tax.  Commissioner Lear commented that we are in desperate need for
relief from Medicaid and asked if legal action would be the thing that
spurs the State towards movement.   Representative Gibson stated that if we
could get enough votes together to favor Medicaid relief for low wealth
counties, there would definitely be a law suit from the larger counties
saying that is a federal program that should be delivered per capita
regardless of county boundaries.  Representative Gibson noted a possibility
for low wealth counties would be to file suit to the Federal Government,
which would probably take eight to ten years but it might have merit.

      Commissioner Streater asked how the lottery would help North Carolina
if and when it was to come.  Representative Gibson stated he was not sure
the lottery would pass.  Representative Gibson feels it will take at least
six years before anyone has the political muscle to be able to look at it
not for education.  Representative Gibson stated that the lottery would
help Anson County and because we have great schools from the brick and
mortar standpoint, we might want to consider creating a trust fund and use
the funds to lower our bond rating or school maintenance.  Representative
Gibson noted it would be per capita and could be nine hundred thousand
dollars a year based on the estimates.  Representative Gibson stated he was
not for the lottery and is not sure we will see as much positive revenue
from the lottery as the numbers predict.  Representative Gibson noted the
reason he voted for the lottery is because he is not prepared to see North
Carolina money go to educating South Carolina children.

      Chairman Woodburn, feeling North Carolina is in worse shape than it
was three or four years ago, asked if there was a projection as to when
North Carolina will get close to a break even point.  Representative Gibson
stated that as long as Democrats control the legislature, they are going to
do as much as they can for people that don't have much.    Representative
Gibson stated that Medicaid, education, justice and public safety were 92%
of the State budget.  Representative Gibson feels we will never have a
surplus again, noting it was not a political issue but rather a program
issue.

      Chairman Woodburn asked if something was being put in place to filter
Economic Development down to everyone.  Representative Gibson stated that
since Anson County is now a Tier 1 county, it would give us more juice for
job attraction.

      Larry Crandell, Director of Social Services, shared with
Representative Gibson some issues in his department.  Mr. Crandell stated
that in FY 1992/93, Anson County budgeted $725,000 for Medicaid, which was
our county portion.  Mr. Crandell noted we spent $727,000.  Mr. Crandell
noted that this year we budgeted $1,800,000 and we will spend
$1,880,243.16.  Mr. Crandell stated that in February when the State gave
them their budget, they left out the Medicaid portion and it took about
three more weeks to get that and when they did, they said based on program
growth, expansion of programs and rate increases to certain groups we
should budget an 11% increase.  Mr. Crandell stated that that equates to
$2,087,000 for Medicaid which is only the cost for pay for the program and
it does not count the cost of the 50% we pay for the non federal share for
staff to administer the program.  Mr. Crandell shared that since July of
2004, he has had a turn over of ten staff people out of around fifty
employees and most of those were income maintenance workers who left Anson
County for Union County for six to ten thousand dollars more to do the same
job.  Mr. Crandell stated it has yet to affect his social workers but most
of those are in a work against status and feels when they become fully
qualified they will leave for Union County.  Mr. Crandell feels that two
million dollars would do a lot, not only for his staff but also allow funds
for other departments.  Mr. Crandell stated that his Medicaid recipients
have better health care than those that work for the county.   Mr. Crandell
noted that North Carolina has been gracious to its poor people in services
authorized in Medicaid.  Mr. Crandell shared that it will be difficult to
take that away without an uproar.  Mr. Crandell stated that something has
to be done.  Mr. Crandell shared that he has social workers riding around
in unsafe vehicles and feels we might end up in a situation where an
employee will create a lawsuit problem because we can't provide a new
vehicle.  Mr. Crandell voiced appreciation to Representative Gibson for
what he does and the battles he fights.  Mr. Crandell encouraged
Representative Gibson to do something with the other State legislators to
get the monkey off our back.  Mr. Crandell stated that the State has more
options to raise taxes than local county government.  Mr. Crandell stated
that if he sees anything in the State Senate bill to help NASCAR build
their museum in Charlotte, he will be very upset.  Mr. Crandell noted that,
except for Charlotte, NASCAR has totally abandoned North Carolina.  Mr.
Crandell shared that in other states, school districts can raise their own
taxes.  Mr. Crandell voiced that he wants to see the less fortunate taken
care of because many of them worked in the mills for years and created all
kinds of stuff we've worn before.  Mr. Crandell feels our farmers need to
be taken care of because without them we would not eat what we eat at the
cheapest rates today.  Mr. Crandell voiced that he loves the elderly
because they built Anson County and they deserve to be taken care of.
Commissioner Lear agreed with Mr. Crandell, voicing that if the State does
not raise the tax to handle Medicaid the county will have to raise property
taxes to cover it.

      Commissioner Lear asked the status of the State Park issue.
Representative Gibson stated that he can't justify using trust fund monies
until the state budget gets better.  Representative Gibson suspects that
within three years there will be brick and mortar there but he can't ask
for new capital outlay money now.

      At this point, Commissioner Lear left the meeting.

      Commissioner Sims asked if the retirement fund was safe this year
with Representative Gibson answering that the State retirement fund was
completely healthy and there would be some contribution.  Representative
Gibson stated this may be one of the few funds that is not over obligated.


      Commissioner Sims commented that one of the things that makes
Representative Gibson such a great representative is that even though he is
an important person, he is still one of us and he will return a phone call.
 Representative Gibson stated that Anson County is so much smaller than
those around us and legislatively we must stay known at the state level.

      Chairman Woodburn thanked Representative Gibson for coming and
listening to Board members.   Chairman Woodburn stated that we can't thank
him enough for the job he is doing for Anson County.  Chairman Woodburn
noted that Representative Gibson has access to more resources than we do
and stated that we are counting on him because he is one of us.
Representative Gibson stated that when the money was taken from the sales
tax reimbursement he ran a bill against the Governor's wishes and got the
sales tax money back.  Representative Gibson noted that maybe it was time
for the small counties to have a little meeting to see what they could do
collectively.  Representative Gibson stated that the Senate budget is as
ugly a document as he has seen in ten years.  Representative Gibson shared
that Senator Purcell is also displeased with the budget.  Commissioner Sims
asked Representative Gibson to hold on to the ADM funds.

      At this point, Representative Gibson left the meeting.

      Chairman Woodburn called for a motion to go into closed session to
discuss personnel.  Motion by Commissioner Streater, seconded by
Commissioner Sikes, to go into closed session pursuant to N.C.G.S. 143-
318.11(a)(6) to consider the qualifications, competence, performance,
condition of appointment of a public officer or employee or prospective
public officer or employee.    Motion carried unanimously.

      Motion by Commissioner Sims, seconded by Commissioner Streater, to go
out of closed session.  Motion carried unanimously.

      In regular session, motion by Commissioner Sims, seconded by
Commissioner Streater, to recess until Monday, May 9, 2005 at 6:00 P.M. in
Room 31 of the Courthouse.  Motion carried unanimously.

                                        Respectfully submitted:



                                        Bonnie M. Huntley, CMC
                                        Clerk to the Board

Meeting time:  2-hr. 30 min.